Perhaps the concern was more re the ‘balance of power” - one person with experience, fitness and motivation; the other significantly less so. Furthermore, if someone plays down what’s to come, you less likely to understand the potential danger. I get where you’re coming from: in the UK, as an adult, you are very much responsible for what you get involved in. Unless you have a cognitive impairment, it’s assumed you can make an informed decision. But only if you are informed. In this case, I wonder whether this girl had been given enough information to make that informed decision.
I guess, like most of these things, we’ll only get to the truth in about 5-10 years when all the facts are known and an objective analysis can be done. Until then, I think we’re speculating based on half a story.
Although we like to think of ourselves as moderns, we live with one foot in the future and one in the past. Subconsciously, we don't visualise this 33-year-old woman as fit and strong, capable, well-educated, probably with a professional career, and with full agency over herself and her actions, a girl-boss (as we should), but more like a small, incapable, frail woman-child (as we once did), easily led into danger by some toxic masculine man.
I expect, being a modern, the guy didn't feel able to say "look love, this is too hard for you," and so, made the mistake of treating her as an equal.
There's the false hyperreality of 60kg women CIA agents beating up 120kg KGB agents, and the material reality of the 1.5 million dead and injured in the Ukrainian war; where the number of dead women is probably a rounding error.
As you say, we'll never know what really happened, but if we did, we'd recognise it, as all of us have been there ourselves, but got away with it.
What seemed to have doomed him in this trial was the testimony of his ex-girlfriend who said that he had abandoned on her on the exact same route a few years ago when her headlamp ran out of battery.
Sorry for pause,,,,had an angiogram to check if any blocked arteries…’kkkkkkk
It’s not just case of interpersonal responsibility, in Europe , the law is involved. But it you look back at the original accounts of 2 yrs ago, their behaviour was more than strange. She was in snow board boots and carrying a split board for the descent. They were still climbing at 11pm and were in-touch with MR but refused help .
I think in the past, killing someone due to a mistake in judgement was good enough punishment, and ‘there by the grace of God’ goes pretty much every climber, walker, skier, kayaker, caver, sailor on the planet!
Andy, in many Euro countries e.g. France, and Austria where the 2 yr old case has just been heard )there is law which states the most experienced is legally responsible. So this is not a usual case of what or where the moral responsibilities lie between 2 climbing colleagues, …..more later am in dock
I like the idea that in the UK, everything is legal unless the law says it's not, while on the continent, everything is illegal unless the law says it's not. I think this kind of law is infantilising, as it assumes people have no agency and are just 'led astray' (they were "groomed", another infantilising term). How long until Mammut or Petzl are taken to court like Big Tobacco?
Perhaps the concern was more re the ‘balance of power” - one person with experience, fitness and motivation; the other significantly less so. Furthermore, if someone plays down what’s to come, you less likely to understand the potential danger. I get where you’re coming from: in the UK, as an adult, you are very much responsible for what you get involved in. Unless you have a cognitive impairment, it’s assumed you can make an informed decision. But only if you are informed. In this case, I wonder whether this girl had been given enough information to make that informed decision.
I guess, like most of these things, we’ll only get to the truth in about 5-10 years when all the facts are known and an objective analysis can be done. Until then, I think we’re speculating based on half a story.
I wonder if the genders were reversed, if she'd have been charged, or if his partner was male?
That last para: is that not adventure? There’s a fine line.
How responsible are climbers for each other's safety? Mountaineers react to manslaughter https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy8ppn4142o
Ach, you hope the result would be the same…?
Although we like to think of ourselves as moderns, we live with one foot in the future and one in the past. Subconsciously, we don't visualise this 33-year-old woman as fit and strong, capable, well-educated, probably with a professional career, and with full agency over herself and her actions, a girl-boss (as we should), but more like a small, incapable, frail woman-child (as we once did), easily led into danger by some toxic masculine man.
I expect, being a modern, the guy didn't feel able to say "look love, this is too hard for you," and so, made the mistake of treating her as an equal.
There's the false hyperreality of 60kg women CIA agents beating up 120kg KGB agents, and the material reality of the 1.5 million dead and injured in the Ukrainian war; where the number of dead women is probably a rounding error.
As you say, we'll never know what really happened, but if we did, we'd recognise it, as all of us have been there ourselves, but got away with it.
What seemed to have doomed him in this trial was the testimony of his ex-girlfriend who said that he had abandoned on her on the exact same route a few years ago when her headlamp ran out of battery.
Fuck, could any man survive the testimony of an ex?
Sorry for pause,,,,had an angiogram to check if any blocked arteries…’kkkkkkk
It’s not just case of interpersonal responsibility, in Europe , the law is involved. But it you look back at the original accounts of 2 yrs ago, their behaviour was more than strange. She was in snow board boots and carrying a split board for the descent. They were still climbing at 11pm and were in-touch with MR but refused help .
I think in the past, killing someone due to a mistake in judgement was good enough punishment, and ‘there by the grace of God’ goes pretty much every climber, walker, skier, kayaker, caver, sailor on the planet!
Andy, in many Euro countries e.g. France, and Austria where the 2 yr old case has just been heard )there is law which states the most experienced is legally responsible. So this is not a usual case of what or where the moral responsibilities lie between 2 climbing colleagues, …..more later am in dock
I like the idea that in the UK, everything is legal unless the law says it's not, while on the continent, everything is illegal unless the law says it's not. I think this kind of law is infantilising, as it assumes people have no agency and are just 'led astray' (they were "groomed", another infantilising term). How long until Mammut or Petzl are taken to court like Big Tobacco?